The pretension of expectations that I ought to be anything beyond some "gender-neutral" amiable, cooperative and courteous to strangers seems absolutely and without equal the height of human stupidity. I've been in a spectrum of blue collar, tough nut jobs - in huge companies that are responsible for not blowing up the homes we all live in, I might add - where I needed to not only talk "man-talk" about raping, drug use and firearms to fit in; but behave like an extremely poorly behaved child just to not be targeted. I've seen "masculine" men treat a more trans-woman(?) presenting person with more respect if they show their masculine role markers than they will with non-ego posturing, role-rejecting person like me. "Manhood" and masculinity is extremely stupid and toxic but maybe people who don't know themselves on whatever we might call a self-aware or "spiritual" level will need a role, a false self, to cling to in order to exist under the weight of fragility or to weather whatever violent, "masculinity"-dominated context they find themselves in. I would hope "masculinity" is something every man outgrows; but I won't hold my breath as violent stupidity is unfortunately a tenable survival strategy.
Male sexuality, sure, I like wearing that hat at appropriate times, because it's my body and what I sense and it's only able to be reasoned through by me once I accepted and listened to my emotions and other sensations. I put zero stock in the notion of gender norms or roles when thinking about myself at all, when making justice and logisitic decisions with my wife of nearing 20 years, when I parent my son or daughter, or when dealing in my now more reasonable and livable (DEI-heavy, union and pleasant) job culture. Gender norms are a whole lot of "supposed to's" rather than what I am going to do and what I want, desire, need, feel, agree and have to do; and "supposed to" is just received bad culture and pretty much half-assed thinking. How often does anyone get what they want in life doing what they are "supposed" to do in terms of gender norms? I know who I am and how I feel and how I want to be and exist, and envy no one; and who I am is so many other things beyond whatever the heck gender normed "masculinity" or even "femininity" tells me I'm supposed to be, and theres so many better "identities" to organize my soul around and psychological strategies to build a life and a family around than these, frankly, idiotic notions of anyone having to be this or that based on notions of one's genitalia and physiology, or subverting the absense or presence, or ambiguity of one's genitalia and physiology. The Way anyone ought to be becomes clear when we give up the expectations and pretensions and start traveling.
>Instead of "I am a man," try "I am someone who engages with my own masculine ways of being."
I feel like this is ... kinda not succeeding at masculinity neutrality. Perhaps reading unfairly! Because I think you're very right when it comes to the idea that, for many, arguing for a better masculinity is just telling men to be more feminine. But isn't this just that? "Why don't you try not identifying as a man?" is the thing men don't like about telling them to be more feminine!
I think this is in fact, kinda backwards - what causes men to hold onto gender tightly is that deviation in graded very starkly, right? So, why are we talking about yet another way to say, "behaving otherwise is to not be a man"?
It seems to me that this was entirely unnecessary for most women - some are ok thinking of parts of themselves as masculine, others say no, these traits can also be feminine, and are for me. Generally speaking, they didn't abandon the title "woman" en masse.
I hear what you're saying. To be clear I'm firmly against taking away someone's identity, I think what I was trying to get at is holding those identities less firmly and rigidly and accept the spectrum of masculinity rather than the stereotypical version of masculinity. As well as understand that the policing of masculinity identity has caused SO much harm not only to men but to society at large. I don't expect men to get rid of the identity of men, at all. That "I am a man" try statement was more of an internal thought process rather an external language change, if that makes sense.
100% - I generally take the attitude that, as a matter of causing things to improve, a pluralistic mindset is best. I shared on another forum a sort of, "I don't need positive masculinity bc I don't want to be masculine" take I read, and I was a lil annoyed at the pushback - I didn't feel the piece reflected my view of myself, but idk why I'd expect it to, lol! We're made better off by everyone trying to live more authentically, wherever that takes them.
I took the piece as being more prescriptive due to the opening re: positive masculinity, hence my reaction. But in general I definitely agree that getting out of straightjacket is what needs to happen
The pretension of expectations that I ought to be anything beyond some "gender-neutral" amiable, cooperative and courteous to strangers seems absolutely and without equal the height of human stupidity. I've been in a spectrum of blue collar, tough nut jobs - in huge companies that are responsible for not blowing up the homes we all live in, I might add - where I needed to not only talk "man-talk" about raping, drug use and firearms to fit in; but behave like an extremely poorly behaved child just to not be targeted. I've seen "masculine" men treat a more trans-woman(?) presenting person with more respect if they show their masculine role markers than they will with non-ego posturing, role-rejecting person like me. "Manhood" and masculinity is extremely stupid and toxic but maybe people who don't know themselves on whatever we might call a self-aware or "spiritual" level will need a role, a false self, to cling to in order to exist under the weight of fragility or to weather whatever violent, "masculinity"-dominated context they find themselves in. I would hope "masculinity" is something every man outgrows; but I won't hold my breath as violent stupidity is unfortunately a tenable survival strategy.
Male sexuality, sure, I like wearing that hat at appropriate times, because it's my body and what I sense and it's only able to be reasoned through by me once I accepted and listened to my emotions and other sensations. I put zero stock in the notion of gender norms or roles when thinking about myself at all, when making justice and logisitic decisions with my wife of nearing 20 years, when I parent my son or daughter, or when dealing in my now more reasonable and livable (DEI-heavy, union and pleasant) job culture. Gender norms are a whole lot of "supposed to's" rather than what I am going to do and what I want, desire, need, feel, agree and have to do; and "supposed to" is just received bad culture and pretty much half-assed thinking. How often does anyone get what they want in life doing what they are "supposed" to do in terms of gender norms? I know who I am and how I feel and how I want to be and exist, and envy no one; and who I am is so many other things beyond whatever the heck gender normed "masculinity" or even "femininity" tells me I'm supposed to be, and theres so many better "identities" to organize my soul around and psychological strategies to build a life and a family around than these, frankly, idiotic notions of anyone having to be this or that based on notions of one's genitalia and physiology, or subverting the absense or presence, or ambiguity of one's genitalia and physiology. The Way anyone ought to be becomes clear when we give up the expectations and pretensions and start traveling.
>Instead of "I am a man," try "I am someone who engages with my own masculine ways of being."
I feel like this is ... kinda not succeeding at masculinity neutrality. Perhaps reading unfairly! Because I think you're very right when it comes to the idea that, for many, arguing for a better masculinity is just telling men to be more feminine. But isn't this just that? "Why don't you try not identifying as a man?" is the thing men don't like about telling them to be more feminine!
I think this is in fact, kinda backwards - what causes men to hold onto gender tightly is that deviation in graded very starkly, right? So, why are we talking about yet another way to say, "behaving otherwise is to not be a man"?
It seems to me that this was entirely unnecessary for most women - some are ok thinking of parts of themselves as masculine, others say no, these traits can also be feminine, and are for me. Generally speaking, they didn't abandon the title "woman" en masse.
I hear what you're saying. To be clear I'm firmly against taking away someone's identity, I think what I was trying to get at is holding those identities less firmly and rigidly and accept the spectrum of masculinity rather than the stereotypical version of masculinity. As well as understand that the policing of masculinity identity has caused SO much harm not only to men but to society at large. I don't expect men to get rid of the identity of men, at all. That "I am a man" try statement was more of an internal thought process rather an external language change, if that makes sense.
100% - I generally take the attitude that, as a matter of causing things to improve, a pluralistic mindset is best. I shared on another forum a sort of, "I don't need positive masculinity bc I don't want to be masculine" take I read, and I was a lil annoyed at the pushback - I didn't feel the piece reflected my view of myself, but idk why I'd expect it to, lol! We're made better off by everyone trying to live more authentically, wherever that takes them.
I took the piece as being more prescriptive due to the opening re: positive masculinity, hence my reaction. But in general I definitely agree that getting out of straightjacket is what needs to happen